Dialogue on Gaza and Israel

"We may not have been properly listening to each other lately and have not truly been seeing each other." These are the opening words of Bald de Vries, moderator during a livestreamed dialogue on Friday 12 July on issues surrounding the situation in Gaza and Israel.  

Among the fourteen participants are students and staff members with diverse views and backgrounds. Bald calls on those present to try to talk from feeling and expresses the hope that the conversation will lead to better mutual understanding. Because that understanding has not seldomly been lacking in recent months. 

The violence in Gaza and Israel is not in dispute here; the abhorrence about this is unanimous. But there is less consensus on many other issues surrounding the conflict, and having constructive conversations is proving to be challenging. 

Empty chair

Soon after the start of the meeting, one of the attendees reads a minute-long plea on behalf of Utrecht Encampment about, among other things, the violence in Gaza, about collaborating partners and complicity, about conditions for having a conversation, about police action and about the felt need to stand up and leave the dialogue. An empty chair remains. Despite calls from a fellow student and from the moderator to please stay.

"This is exactly the problem", says one of the remaining participants. "That there is absolutely no dialogue possible and everything is presented in black and white. This is polarising the university. As a university, you need to start developing a moral compass for how to deal with this. And that, in my opinion, has been sorely lacking."

Someone else: "I feel that it touches me when this is read out, because I see that it is very authentic.” "But", he continues, "it makes us freeze and get into camps. And that's not going to help Gaza and Israel. Nor will it help us as faculties and university. How can we better equip ourselves to have the conversation?"

"I actually understand very well that people are walking away from this conversation", says a staff member who indicates having called for cutting all ties with Israeli universities. "In my view, Israeli universities are complicit in Israel's crimes. I have become extremely disappointed over the past few months, not so much in the Executive Board or individuals, but in the university as a place. Because the conversation should have been held much earlier and it did not take place."

Search

Rector Magnificus Henk Kummeling, who is present on behalf of the Executive Board together with vice-president Margot van der Starre: "We have tried everything recently to organise a dialogue (with protesting students and staff members, ed.). But that dialogue is not getting off the ground because it is only allowed on the terms of the people who want a boycott.”

"It is a search for us," Van der Starre adds. "How do we get the conversation going properly and how do we make sure everyone feels safe and respected?”

Kummeling: “We are being condemned on one side for not calling something genocide and on the other side we are being accused of not denying that it is genocide. As a result, we ourselves have become subjects in the conflict, so as soon as we join the conversation, polarisation increases. That is why I think it is very good and important that – in addition to all the dialogues we as Executive Board have with various people – discussions are being organised in different places within the university."

Collaborations

Margot van der Starre understands the concerns and questions surrounding cooperation with Israeli universities. However, she stresses that there is not cooperation with just anyone, that there are consideration frameworks and that all partnerships are now being carefully reviewed and reconsidered (see: Update on the evaluation of collaboration with Israeli partners, ed.).

A student responds: "I think transparency is needed from the Executive Board to be able to move forward. We don't see what is happening - for example, that collaborative partnerships are being re-evaluated, that police action is being investigated and what the safety considerations are for ending demonstrations. If you don't know that, everyone is going to put their own interpretations on it."

A University Council member: "In the University Council, we had a lot of discussion on the topic. The Executive Board has always contributed to it with genuine interest. But that was here in a room and I can imagine that people thought: we are not being heard. I resent that we didn't bring that out adequately; the academic community didn't get to see it enough."

Star of David

A student shares what effect the demonstrations have had on him. He no longer wears his Star of David necklace visibly and he stayed away from class because of a demonstration. "People are right to be concerned about human lives in Gaza. I too don't want innocent people to die. But what I see at demonstrations is that sometimes it is no longer about Palestinian lives but shifts to anti-Semitism. A university should make sure everyone feels at home and safe. And that has not always been the case with me."

Henk Kummeling: "If people no longer feel safe enough to come to classrooms where they have to sit next to each other, then we have a serious problem. Or colleagues who have to hide their identity to prevent conflicts. How do you create a situation where people know how to get along with each other in a normal way again?"

Grief

"I see people on both sides hurting each other a lot and I see that there is a lot of grief", says a student. "During seminar groups, I notice polarisation. You are actually forced to be in a certain 'camp'. It makes me sad when the terrible things that happen are also met with aggression and violence. For example, when things are vandalised at demonstrations or when the police are attacked and people - of any view or background - don't feel safe. So at least I’m happy that we can now talk to each other here in a civilised, normal way."

Moderator Bald de Vries rounds off the conversation by expressing the thought that some steps might have been taken - but not nearly enough - to be able to continue talking properly as an academic community. "I think it's very brave that you were here and hope you were able to say what you wanted, even though it was only an hour. I hope it is an hour that opens new doors and opportunities to organise new dialogue sessions. We need everyone for that."

Missed it?

A recording of the livestream can be watched here. The dialogue was hosted in luistertaal; attendees could speak in either Dutch or English. Most of the conversation between te participants was in Dutch. Prior to the dialogue, staff and students submitted questions and concerns. The moderator has included these in his preparation for the conversation.

Would you like to know more about collaborations? Through this page you will find an overview of and information on re-evaluation of all research and exchange collaborations of Utrecht University and UMC Utrecht with Israeli organisations. And in this video, the rector addresses questions about cooperation with Israeli institutions and researchers.